What Comes Next?

What if the season that feels most uncertain is the one God is using to prepare you?

When a chapter closes and you don't know what comes next, it's easy to feel stuck, forgotten, or unsure of your purpose. But throughout Scripture, some of God's greatest servants experienced long seasons of waiting before they stepped into what God had prepared for them.

In this episode, we explore the stories of Joseph, Moses, David, and Jesus, and what they teach us about trusting God when life doesn't make sense.

This conversation builds on last week's episode about value—where we explored what happens when we lose sight of our worth and rediscover that our value comes from God, not from what we do. This week, we ask the next question: What happens when you've accepted that truth, but you still don't know what comes next?

If you're navigating loss, change, disappointment, or uncertainty, this episode is a reminder that God hasn't forgotten you, He isn't finished with you, and your waiting season is not wasted.

📖 Key Scriptures: Genesis 50:20, Psalm 27:14, Isaiah 40:31, Philippians 1:6

#ChristianPodcast #FaithInWaiting #TrustGod #ChristianEncouragement #Purpose

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi and welcome back to the Muddy Cross Podcast. Thanks so much for joining us in this episode. So, Julie, last week we spoke about value in regards to not seeing the value in ourselves. Yes. Um, and we kind of we wanted to carry on from that. And moving on, that what happens if you don't see the value in yourself, but you're trying to get out of that place to again obviously see the value and figure out what's next. But it kind of in that there's another question that comes out. So, what happens when you accept that you've that your identity isn't fine in what you do, you're not defined by that, but you don't know what to do and what comes next.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Yeah, because that's that uncertainty, that's that not knowing, isn't it? Yeah, I'm gonna like that. And we don't like that, people humans don't we don't like that, do we? Yeah, and we definitely don't like that. Um, we like to have a plan, we like to be able to foresee. Um, we like to go, right, that's what's gonna happen over the next five years. And as much as we don't know, we still think we we can organise it, we think we can set targets and goals, which is a good thing to do, but at the same time, we should be doing that in relationship with God and and allowing Him to guide us because sometimes we can be in a season where the future just feels so unclear that actually it throws you off, and then you start getting the anxiety and the worry, and all of those things come in, and then it affects your confidence, and so it's it's a really difficult one, but it's trying to step aside the innate human, like I want to control, yeah, which is difficult.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

And I think life throws, I mean, we kind of spoke about this again last week. Life throws those curveballs, and you know, in terms of like you you've just come out of a relationship or jobs changing, or you've lost your job, whatever the case may be, there's a multitude of them, and the problem is that as you say, we don't have then control of that, and we know that God has a plan, but yet we don't know what that plan is, and that's what obviously freaks everybody out. So the question becomes is who you know what do we do in the middle of that situation? What how do we navigate through that? Because us having control isn't always a good thing, yeah. We tend to make mistakes, we're human at the end of the day, and we know that God has got a plan for us. Yeah, how do we marry that together and move forward with life? Yeah, still seeing the value in ourselves, knowing that God sees tremendous value in us because He created us that way. How do we marry that?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

It's fascinating, isn't it? Because some of God's greatest servants all spent time in that exact place. Yeah, and our the Bible, our guide, you know, information before leaving earth, yeah, gives us that. It gives us the accounts of those people going through those situations so that when we are feeling like this, we can go, right? How, what, why, help? And we can reach into here. So some of the stories are really fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

There's one actually sprung to mind is Joseph, the classic everybody knows. Joseph and take a little dream coat. And when Joseph was younger, he had lots of dreams, God gave him lots of dreams, and you know, he really felt connected with God, but then his life took quite a dramatic change. You know, his brothers picked him and beat him up, chucked him in a pit, sold him as a slave.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

You know, you'd kind of feel a bit abandoned, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

And the thing got worse, it got worse than that. He he he was also falsely accused and then imprisoned.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

So for a huge chunk of Joseph's life, things were pretty bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

And obviously, there's a greater plan in all of that. Um, because you know, if you think about it, there's years, like you say, between you know what God's got intended for him that he had to go through. He had to go through that, you know, the promise and then the fulfilment of that promise. You know, it has a huge amount of time that you can feel abandoned, you can feel lost, you can feel like helpless, you know, questioning, I guess, you know, all these things because you're you're kind of we always say it, don't you? It can be a bit like groundhog day, it can be about uh limbo, you know, you just you don't know where you're going, you don't know what you're doing, you don't know when this is gonna end, when you're gonna get out of it, and it's such a it can be such a daunting feeling, all of that. Um and I'm sure Joseph must have wondered what God was doing through through some of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Do you know that and I'll I'll get back to that in just one second, but this is where I think testimonies when we gather as a church are so so important because they give us strength, because it's always in the hindsight, isn't it? And you know, in hindsight, when we look at Joseph's what happened with Joseph through the the Bible, the tellings in the Bible, this hindsight because we're looking back on something at the time, yeah, Joseph didn't know. He he was in the situation that a lot of us find ourselves in, uh, and the examples that we give before.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

And that's why, sorry to cut in there, but that's why I kind of like I enjoy this doing doing these podcasts and and having this time together because we're not at the end of that journey yet. Like we're from when we started with Grace and the Grit, if you haven't watched it, go watch it. From when we started with Grace and the Grit to now, we're still in that season of that journey, we're not at the other side. Whereas most people, a lot of people, especially ones that I you know read books and I watch podcasts, and the people that I follow, they're at the other side of it, you know. So um you kind of go, Oh wow, listen to their story, you know. They went through this, this, this, and this, and they're here. But actually, I find it fascinating that we're still going through that, yeah. Um, and so that's why we kind of say that this is as much for us as it is obviously for anyone that's that's listening, because these words are so powerful to help whilst you're in the situation, because a lot of that bird's eye view when you're out of the situation, you don't you don't feel like the inner the inner feelings of what we're going through right now, yeah. And this is still true, isn't it? There's there's days for us right now where you're like, what is God even trying to say to us? You know, like we're we we're we're still searching to put food on the table, we're still in a situation where you know we're trying to build up a new business and going through all of that, you're still coming, you know, to revelations of how you're feeling, and like last week, you were so honest, um, you know, sharing about being vulnerable and losing confidence and trying to figure out who you are. You know, that's fascinating, and that that's why I relate to like Job, I relate to Joseph because sometimes you feel like you're you're in that pit, yeah, and you you put yourself and you think, what was Joseph going through when he was in that moment? Like truly, because you do not that you have lack of faith, because your faith is still there, but you question, I'm being faithful, I'm being a good servant, I'm trying to follow you, I'm adding you into my day, but I'm still not where I feel you want me to be or where I want to be.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

And I think that's where as you know, as humans, we it's that wanting control, it's that wanting to know, but actually it's the just giving and trusting. Yeah, and that's something that is the hardest thing. That's sometimes difficult because you know, we want to help ourselves or we want to help other people, and and we just want confirmation, we just want to know everything's gonna be okay. But you know, if we look back at Joseph, you know, when he was in his pit in prison, you know, the prison wasn't his destination, no, it was his preparation for what God wanted him to then step forward into. But again, he didn't necessarily know that.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

No, not at the top.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

But what he would have had is his faith in God and his trust in God that it would come for the good, and that's what we need to do. We need to put ourselves in that position of like, this is really difficult, God. I am finding this so so difficult. But we need to know that God is with us in that pit, in our pit, and he may be silent, but maybe that's because he's just asking us to bear with me, or I need you to think about your situation from a different angle, um, and and that's where the learning comes from, and we will undoubtedly what will happen is looking back in hindsight, is we'll look back and we'll be so grateful for that pit that we were in because of what we learned. Um, but that's part of the trusting process.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, it's incredible, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

I I I've got a wee bit of sorry scripture I wanted to add to this. Um just about Joseph and being in that pit and so on and so forth. So this is right back in Genesis, Genesis 50. Oh, back to the beginning. Back to the beginning, Genesis 50, uh verse 20. Um, and as for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about his present result to preserve many people, uh, people alive. Wow, you know, the world or the devil, not everything is you know, we can't attribute everything to the devil, we shouldn't give him that much credit. Um, but things that that work against us or things that go bad in our lives, it doesn't mean that that the world's against us, or that that God is certainly against us. You know, God meant everything good for us, and sometimes that's the learning within and three bad situations like Joseph found himself in that.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

And what's really interesting is we're talking about Joseph, and this is before Joseph even enters the buildings. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is this is where before a lot of things, uh yeah, and this is what this is what's fascinating with the Bible, isn't it? Is that you can be in a story towards the end of the Bible, and actually, when you go back, it's foretold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, oh wow. Yeah, so he's telling us right away from the first book of Genesis, yeah, just trust in me. Yeah, you know, you're gonna go through hard times, you're gonna have difficult moments, you're gonna have to learn the fruits of the spirit, the big one, patience. Yeah, yeah, it's the hardest one for me for sure. Um, and you're gonna have to learn trust, yeah, and that's that Proverbs um, you know, 3.5. You're gonna have to learn to lean into me because you you can try and lean into yourself, but we said that last week. When you're leaning into yourself, all you're doing is false security because all you're doing is filling yourself up with items that money can buy. Yeah, you're not filling yourself up with true, yeah, the true inner peace and connection that ultimately when you strip all the other stuff away, that's what's gonna leave you either whole or or empty, and I think that's the important one.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah, no, that's that's true. That's true. I mean, I'm just I'm just thinking my mind's now raised about other other stories in the Bible that we can that we can draw on. One one is Moses, and um there's a lot of there's a lot from Moses I think we can gain, but a lot of people obviously remember Moses as as as bringing um you know bringing basically Israel out of Europe. Yeah, or not Europe, sorry, out of out of Egypt.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

That's a chain, that's what I out of Egypt.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

And um, you know, but before that happened, he spent 40 years in the wilderness.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

In the wilderness, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

40 years, that's a long time in the wilderness. You know, that that's to me that's quite crazy because if we look at Moses before that, you know, he was with Pharaoh and he had a lot of influence, he had probably a lot of luxury, you know. He in some ways you could say he had it made.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, yeah, he had those worldly positions, and then one instance.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

One instance that didn't rest with him, one mistake or yeah, one instance changed everything, and and that was it. Strictly for decades, he he just life was very, very ordinary then.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Yeah, can you imagine that 40 years and that looked like failure, you know? It well coming, yeah, coming from God's you know, God was working, God was fulfilling all of that, but from his perspective, sitting in that, I'm I'm banished, I'm you know, I've got to run, so I'm hiding, I'm banished, I've come from all of this glory to now so humble living in the mountains, you know, being a shepherd, I guess, you know, just just tending flock and look and doing that. But that's God, the refiner, and that's where we feel so like connected to these stories, aren't we? Because we feel the same that you know, all the things you know, we've we've been there where we've we've you know, traveling the world and having you know money to be able to just go out and do what you want, to then having that all that stripped away, and then sitting there going, Well, actually, if I haven't got all these things defining me, all these things labelling me, all these things what I thought were my security, who am I? What am I? You know, and that's that's a big step, that's a big process to go through. But like you say, it's only when you're going through it or you're coming towards the other side, yeah, that you can start looking back and going, ah, like we're not even out of our journey, but I can still look and think, okay, well, I know what those seven years were. You know, quite clearly, I know what those seven years were because from my achieving mentality when I was younger, you know, I know I can look back and think, right, okay, early 20s, late 20s, very much ego and pride, very much ego and pride. I I know you know that that was there, and so that like I think if I hadn't have had this refining, how would I be as a person? Yeah, you know, I it would have been all about you know, trying to constantly be on that pedestal, constantly trying to achieve, constantly, probably either burnt out or just so wrapped up in myself, it would be scary. Yeah, and so I am so even though it has been the hardest time, like we've spoken about it on our journey, you know, some of the things that we've had to go through, like not having hot water, not having those basic things that people take for granted, you know, all of those now to me are a blessing because they teach us to connect and have empathy for other people in similar situations. It teaches us that we've said it before, when you stop looking here and you start looking behind the person here, you you connect on a deeper level and you start seeing everyone as a child of God. We're literally the same, we are all children of God. There is not one person that's better than another, and we're no better than anyone else. And I think that that only comes from being through that process, comes from being stripped in some way, whether that was from a young moment in your life or whether that was something like us we've had to go through at a later moment in our life. Um, it's still a refining process, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

And you know, I think that linking it back to last week's episode, it's it's that lack of value, and but it's recognising that that again that God sees our value in us, but it's the different seasons of our life, as you as you pointed out. I mean, another one I'm thinking back to in the Bible is is David.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah, David experienced this, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

I mean he grew up with a great tremendous faith in God and and loved to worship God. Um and he was just happy, it it seems from from the talents that he he had a happy life in s in in some regards. Um and then along comes Samuel and basically united him as king as a boy.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

As a boy.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

And what must that have felt like? That must have felt quite.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Well he always felt inferior if if you go by the accounts, you know, because he was wasn't big and strong, was he? So he couldn't be like his older brothers and go out and fight, and he kept asking, he wanted that. Um, but obviously he was tending the flock, and and and isn't it isn't it incredible? It's very similar to Moses, you know, it's in that time of probably a lot of peace, a lot of calm, a lot of waiting, a lot of having to be patient. That that's you wouldn't think there was a lot going on there. No, that was so much, so much going on in those moments for him.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

I'm thinking to the the point where someone anointed him, yeah. But he he anointed him as king, but he wasn't king then, but he then spent years basically running for his life. Yeah, so here he's been told you're gonna you're king or you're ultimately gonna be king, and then he's run for his life. How confusing is that you know what I mean? So so in that in in in his wilderness, he's freaking out thinking, Oh my goodness, I've been given this, you know, great job. Um, but I'm I'm now feared for my life. What what what's God what what are you doing? He must have felt very he must have felt very confused because don't forget in in inner wilderness we can feel lots of different things, we can feel lack of value, yeah. Um we can just feel a mass confusion, um, we can feel a great unlove, we can feel all these things, but he must have felt a mass confusion because God, you've given me that I'm so faithful, and I I yeah and I follow you and I love you, and I want to sing for you every day, and you've given me this. But what is this that follows? Why am I being hunted down? And you know, so in Dear's Wilderness, that must have been very, very confusing, uh confusing um living as a fugitive until obviously you became king.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah, I know it's incredible. There is a piece of scripture that kind of top that goes with this, and the psalms are so connected, obviously, with David. You know, there's there's really painful ones and then there's loving ones, but with Psalm 27, 14, it's wait for the Lord, be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. And the waiting is the hardest part, it's so easy, isn't it? Like I've had it before where we've been in a a real difficult point in you know in in the journey. Um, and even even now, you know, every day you're kind of seeking on different things, like God just speak to me, God tell me what I'm meant to do, blah blah blah. But you know, it's in it's in those moments where you're like, wait for the Lord, right? Okay, well I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting, and then you might see a piece of scripture pop up, and it's like just whatever. It sounds so easy, just like that. Wait for the Lord, be strong and take heart. That's easy to say, but it's really easy, it's not easy to do. It's it's and this is where sometimes I'm like, ah, it's unproductive. Thank you for that one, but it's the the weirding feels unproductive, it feels very um passive extra chase, and it's and it's really hard to be waiting when you know like you're you're living in this world that has the worldly issues attached to it, you know, like okay, well, we've got to put food on the table, we're feeding family, or you know, whatever it is. Okay, so we're waiting for the Lord, okay. We were waiting, but we've still got to do this over here. So, so how do you juggle or health, you know, like for you for the last year? You couldn't work even if you'd wanted to, you know, in some of those moments, you know what I mean? So you're being told to wait, you're being told you're being refined, but at the same time, but that doesn't that doesn't marry up and fit with the world and the world's expectation expectations of me because I need to be providing, I need to be working, I need to be putting food on the table, I need to be so it's it's easy to say it, but if you're going through a health um challenge, if you're going through monetary challenge, if you're going through an identity challenge, whatever it is you're going through, it's really difficult in those actual moments to see clarity of of some of this.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

It is. I'm trying to play. I'm trying to play it. And then maybe you've got to take a day at a time, sort of down and appreciate it because you know, you're saying the past year, well, here we are today, we're we're still here. Yeah, and I was gonna say somehow we've managed it. We've managed it because God has has had his hand on us, yeah, and he's allowed that to happen. And and it's it's just taking each day as it comes, because in those situations, um the world seems too big a place, the situation seems too great, and it you can get lost and that it can swallow you up. So you need to come back small, I think, look at today, be grateful, and thank you. And and and and talk and connect with God about today, yeah, and let tomorrow worry about tomorrow. I mean, just going back to the the David thing is again, and it's relating to to this conversation now, is that you know, those years that David spent basically as a fugitive as you as you would, that was God's shaping of David to become a great and and and amazing king. And had he not David not spent his time running for his life, God wouldn't have been able to work and shape him to become that great king. Um, and he wouldn't necessarily have known at the time, but I have no doubt that David would have looked back at at different circumstances through those fugitive years and thought, do you know what that strengthened me? That strengthened my relationship in God, that strengthened me to be wise and know to do this in this situation. Um you know, and and so it was the same Moses, the same with Joseph.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

It's it's why when his brothers then come and he realised that you know that was his brothers. Oh, and Joseph's for Joseph, yeah, sorry, for Joseph, that's why he re he had the compassion in his heart to just embrace them instead of punish them and hate them, because he could see the whole circle of of where it started right the way back, and that takes a huge amount of you know, like um intuition, wisdom, you know, just to be present and to. To see the bigger picture, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

If that was worldly Joseph, he would have said stuff you. Yeah. Do you know it? But he would have. And um, but but this is what we're talking about: this wilderness, this this challenge that you may be facing is the it's if you allow it to, it will shape you. And I think that's the other part of this is if you allow it to, in other words, if you recognise that you're in that wilderness and you seek the Lord, yeah, then that's you allowing, that's you looking eagerly to say, Lord, shape me. What is it you're trying to teach me? So you can if you sit in in self-pity and wallow in it, then you're not giving God the space to reveal those lessons anyone.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

So you can either let it consume you or you can let it heal you and propel you to what's next. And I think that's a really beautiful way of kind of summing it. And and ultimately, when we look at all these accounts and all these stories in scripture, waiting and being patient is never wasted.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

No, it's not. No, it it's not.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

If you look at all of them, you know, everything that's in common between the three stories, just the three stories, let alone all the other stories like Job and all of those that we spoke about, because Job had to just sit there in that pain, in in what he was going through, all the loss that he'd had, and he had to sit there and wait. And he had people coming at him telling him, you know, like you know, he's it was his fault, and and all the rest of it, challenging all of his beliefs, but it was in that time that he just sat with God. Yeah, so that waiting process, so waiting is never wasted, no, but it's not the easy thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

No, it's not, and I think that you know, a lot of people, whenever they've faced the challenges that they have in life, again, like we mentioned before, it could be a business, it could be a relationship, you know, something that that they were happy walking through life on, well, that's taken away that that waiting for the next thing can seem extremely daunting, it can st it can make you feel like you failed, but it's whether or not again you seek God and God's purpose for you as well. Um that's not to say that you're waiting for God to say, right, this is what I want you to do is your next job. That might happen, don't get me wrong, but but it may be that you get another job, but you're seeking God through what it is that you're going to do. You just you've yeah. I think I think in in terms of waiting, um, you've got to be seeking.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah. And even Jesus experienced the season of preparation, didn't he? Massively, massively.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

I mean, before he um before he done anything, before he done any of his works, he went out, we talked, we spoke about wilderness. He went out literally in the wilderness. Um, and you know, i that must have been that must have been a really tough time as well because he fasted.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

I was just about to say, even if you just take the fact that you've got to fight fast, like we fasted, how many days did we do?

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Oh, I don't know. We've done good and we've not done good. Anyway, that's not talking with those.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Fasting was hard.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Fasting was hard. But but he done it for 40 days, and and what strikes me, you know, I uh I have to always remember sometimes, you know, when Jesus walked the earth, he walked the earth as a man. Yes, so he felt things, he felt the sunny tickled him, he felt the sunny pinched him, he he felt emotion. I wonder if he was allergic to tickles as well. I think he's allergic to tickles, we don't need to tell people that. But he he fasted for 40 days, so he must have felt his bodily ways must have felt particularly weak.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah, because when you're not using the digestive system and you're not chewing, and you're not you know, like seeking food in that way, there's so many emotions, so many things that come up, and you have to deal with those on top of just what he had gone into the wilderness for.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

So it it was a massive process for him to go through all of that, and then obviously with those temptations, yeah, in his wakened state, you know, but but this is again was God refining him to do what he was about to then do and and become the step into his own. Um you know, and and that's truly incredible. In his wakened state, God was I wouldn't say testing, was refining him, and then that's where the devil came in to test, and and and Jesus stood stood firm in scripture. That's why it's important to get your uh head in the Bible. Um, he stood firm in scripture, and that was his refining, you know, before he then he went forward and do the incredible things that he'd done. Yeah, you know, that was before he healed people, that was before he preached, that was before he gave people their sight back. Yeah, you know, and that's quite incredible that the Bible talks about this wilderness through so many different people, and I think the reason it does that is because it speaks into our lives to say that you you too, I will, you will, anyone listening and watching, we will all go through wilderness. So we we should expect that, but we should expect it in some regards with open arms because uh God wants to show us and teach us and refine us for something better for the purpose that He intended us to fulfil. Um so if we enter it, it doesn't mean it's gonna be easy, it does not mean it's gonna be easy. I mean, if you look at all the accounts that we've just spoken about, Joseph must have felt absolutely horrendously abandoned by his family. By his own family, not only did they leave him for a potential dead, they sold him, you're worthless, you know. David, you know, you've been given something amazing, but you've got to run for your life, you're gonna be killed. Oh my goodness, you know, and Jesus, you know, you're just gonna walk for 40 days, you're gonna have no food, you're gonna have nothing, you're gonna feel weak, you're gonna feel absolutely almost and when we look at the wilderness, the wilderness wasn't an accident, it wasn't that he like Jesus wasn't sent there for punishment.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

No, no, no, no, no, God had pure intentions of leading him there, yeah, leading him through it, yeah, and then bringing him the outs the other side to do greatness, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's what he wants for us to, and that's why we have the account of of Jesus going through there to be able to re to read from and relate to, so that when we're going through a similar and and I don't compare it at all to what it I don't compare us to anything that Jesus done in in the same of like even going on the cross, like there's nothing. Do you know what I mean? But in the same way, we're all on a journey, we're all going through different seasons, we're all going through a refining. You know, we have to look at that and go, right, what we're going through now, like those seven years for us so far, and I say so far because I've said we're still in it, that's our 40 days. You know, look at look at all of the stories that we've just said with Moses and David and um Joseph, you know, they weren't 40 days and 40 nights, they were all longer than that. So it's just showing an account, yeah, you know, of what of what we're gonna have. We're all gonna have our own 40 days, you know, and if we let God in and we let him do what he wants to do, and we work with him rather than trying to fight him and embrace it in some ways, which I know is difficult because of the whole patience thing and and the and the process of that, but we're then gonna come out the other side and we're going to be able to fulfil and do the purpose that he had for us in the in the beginning, yeah. Because that that I think is the most important. I don't want to get to the end and look back and think, what was my personal purpose? I didn't fulfil my purpose. I I'd like to know, but I I tried, I was open enough, I might not have fulfilled all of it, but I was open enough to to l embrace whatever he's leading me to do. Yeah, um, and I think that's that's really important.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think just hearing you say all that, I I kind of I mentioned this at the start. I think if anyone is going through this season, this wilderness, um, this this period of lost, you know, this is where again testimony really is encouraging if you let it be, because obviously we can be resentful when we hear other people's uh testimony because you don't understand what I'm going through, my situation's worse. Um, but if we allow it to, and we we first of all we recognise okay, this is not a great season, I'm really struggling.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

But we're allowed to say that, we're allowed to have that.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

But but I know that God's with me, and I am I want to know what it is He's trying to teach me. Upon hearing other people's testimony is just confirmation again that okay, somebody else got through their wilderness, you know, and and that's where the encouragement comes from. Yes, the exact details of what they had to go through, I'm not downplaying that, that's important, and that's also encouraging. But the fact that the testimony was there in the first place, that they got over something through something, that's confirmation that God's working in them and brought them through a difficult time, brought them through their wilderness, and that's what lifts us, that's what gives us encouragement to know that the the wilderness that we find ourselves in now, God is also with us, and God, if we allow it and if we have a relationship with Him and we trust Him, He will also get us through our wilderness. I as you say, we don't know how long that wilderness is gonna last, um, but we just take day by day and we seek the Lord each and every day, and we say, Lord, thank you for this day. Um, Lord, just help me get through this day, be with me in this day, stay in communication with God all day, and then you get through into the next day, and you repeat, and you get through in the next day and the next day, and then all of a sudden a week and a month's past, maybe that's your wilderness, maybe it's a year, I don't know. But if we break it down like that, I think it's more encouraging than looking at the the future within our wilderness, because we then at that point probably can't see an end, yeah, and that's when it that wilderness then consumes us, and that's where we may then start to lose faith and may not talk to God as much.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

But actually, it's the time that we should seek him more, it's the time that we should speak to him more, yeah, and and and having that kind of mindset of you know being productive and achieving and all of that, actually seeking him is the most achieving thing you can do, and the most productive thing that you can do, yeah, 100%. Even though, like, when you look at the scheme of your day and you plan your day out, you're like, where am I gonna fit in the time to actually do that? Like, this is this is so hard, but that should be at the top of the list, and I and I say that as well as it's telling off for us to do that. No, I I know it's that it's got to be at the top of the list because if we do that first and we have that time with him before we even start our day, our day will go better.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Well, we I think it means that we bring God into our everything that we do in that day, rather than say, Oh my goodness, Lord, I'll thank you for getting me through this day. Well, you didn't really let him get through, you've just managed to get through the day, you're just now thankful that you got through it, you know. So at the start is better than necessarily just waiting until the end of the day. Yeah, absolutely. So, so we've we've already we've kind of already given some, but if we were to give some tips for people, because I think that this is this is um as we said, this is a uh conversation that affects everybody, and some people more so than others. So, how do we help people um to to navigate out of their wilderness?

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Um one piece of scripture um that actually has helped me a lot, and this was I've said this before in one of our podcasts that we did. So, Christiana, who was the pastor's wife at our previous church, yeah, um, on the and I have it dated on my Bible because it was just such a it yeah, it just touched me so much. So on the 14th of the 8th, 2023, at 2339, Christina uh Christiana sent me a message and what's that? Oh, so sorry, it's Isaiah 4031. I was getting to that, let's say patience, patience, let's get into that, and I even done a bookmark on it because it just yeah, it just reminds me so much of of the the the message she sent and the piece of scripture, but going back to how you can pull on things to help you, that was a really difficult period, lots of difficult periods, but um that was a difficult period, and in that moment I received that message, and that message with this scripture just it it it didn't change the situation, yeah, like the situation was still there, but it changed my feeling in the situation, it changed it just changed my perspective, it gave me a sighing moment, a pausing moment, and it allowed me to embrace God a little bit more to be able to go, actually, yeah, thank you. And so, when we're saying what can help, sometimes just receiving a message from someone and embracing that message can be a help, and so this scripture is but those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength, they will soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint. I just think that's that's a really beautiful one. And obviously, I saw the eagle, you know, I'm visual like you, visual person, and I was like, Yeah, if we seek him and if we don't grow weary in the moment that we're in, and we just see it that we don't know why we're in it, we have no understanding of that, but we're just going to breathe into that moment and embrace it, and it's almost like at that moment when I read that scripture, and I can feel it now, I can feel what I felt then. It felt like I was given wings and that and that I was being lifted out, like lifted up and out of the situation, um, and him going, it's okay, you're gonna soar, you know, not from an ego glory perspective, but from a you're gonna be okay. Yeah, and I think sometimes when we receive a message from someone like I get it now from Gisela, you know, I I could wake up one morning and then there's a message, or I can be busy in my day just getting on with stuff, and then there's a uh she often sends a psalm song come through, and uh you know, I'll play that song as I'm suddenly doing something, and all of a sudden I'm then on the floor in a sobbing mess, going, That was just what I needed right now. Thank you. And so it's about receiving those messages and being open in the moment to to be able to connect, and even if you just sit, even like someone doesn't have to send you a message, even if you just sit and you go, open my Bible and just see what comes out, you know, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

As you were reading that, that that song, The Joy of the Lord, yeah, uh, it just jumped into my mind. It's uh yeah, no, that's really encouraging. So, yeah, scripture is is a great um is is a great uh tip for people within within this situation. Have we got any more that you can think of?

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Oh, what any more tips that I can think of? Um I don't know, let me try and think. I think remembering the scriptures, remembering the accounts can really help. So, you know, like we've done uh as we've done in here today, so remembering, you know, when we're going through a really tough time, like like for example, when we were fasting, I'll just go to that because I know you like I find it challenging, I do, but because I've done so much of it now, you know, I can just see the smile in your face because I've done so much of it now. Um, I'm not saying like I'm a professional or pro or anything, but I know the feelings I'm gonna get, so I know that day one's gonna be oh, I just want to eat, day two is gonna be like I really want to eat something, day three is gonna be I want to chew, I really want to chew, I've had enough of this, I get hangry, I get really grumpy. Day four, I'm good, and I'm like, Oh, I've got this, oh I feel better, oh I'm good, oh I'm okay. Day five, day six, I'm like, oh, this is really good. Um, and so I know I know the process of going through that, and so it it helps me to recount those stories because I know when I'm going through the difficult one on the day two, three, because that's for me my my difficult days. Um, I know that if I think back to Jesus in the wilderness, I'm like, He done 40 days, I'm sure I can do three days, I'm sure I can get through today because he done 40 days, and so it becomes a tool to give you that boost to to go, do you know what? I I can do a bit more right now, I can step up a bit more, I can, I've got this. I you know, because I'm not doing this in me, I'm doing this in him. And if he can be with, you know, he can be with Joseph in the pit, he can be with David when he's running, he can be with Jesus in the wilderness, he can be with me in this moment right now. And so that's where scripture and the accounts of the scripture um just just come in so much, and so yeah, I I just really love that. I really love that connection. Um, I've got one more scripture if you don't mind me from bringing in. So this is Philippians um 1.6, and so being confident of this that he who began a good work in you will carry it to completion until the day of Christ Jesus, and so it's that it's that having that confidence, not in us, yeah. You know, it's not it's not it's not a self-thing, it's having confidence in him, yeah. That he has created us, and each of us have created it, been created for a purpose, yeah, and sometimes we get off the road of that purpose, and he has to go, no, sorry, I've got to bring you back here. Sometimes that's gonna be painful and it's gonna be horrible, and you've got to go through different things, but going through what you've gone through will help you, but it will also help other people, like the miscarriages that we have. We said it before, but going through the miscarriages that we've had helped other people because we shared, like you said about sharing testimonies, we weren't walking with Christ then, but we shared what was going on in our life, we were open about it, we were honest about it, and through doing that, we helped because we had people come to us saying we helped other people, and I think that that that is so so true here that whatever we're gonna go through, even though at the time you you don't understand it and you don't want it, and you and you're just crying out for it to be taken away. Actually, we've said it if you just breathe into it and embrace it, and just know I'm really uncomfortable, and I'm allowed to tell you that I'm uncomfortable, I'm allowed to tell you that this is not where I want to be, but actually, I am grateful because I know at some point in the future I'm gonna look back and this is gonna be the best thing for me, and I'm gonna embrace it and I'm gonna love it, and actually, just like when we were in the miscarriage moment, you know, like I'm sure when I was leaning on you and you were in agony, and I was pouring out with blood and all that that that situation in that moment, how on earth could we ever feel that that was gonna be a blessing to it uh to us or anyone else? But it ended up being that, um, and as we say now, we look back now and we say, not that we you know, not that we wanted to go through that, if God forbid that, but we did, and what what what I'm saying from that perspective is we wouldn't have the three boys that we have now had we not been through that, and so I can't compare or take that away because I'm like I'm so blessed with what we have now, and therefore that was a blessing because it made me appreciate those children more, it's made me, you know, even though I was a nervous wreck as a pregnant mum, it it just made that whole process more intentional, more important. It's why we then chose to homeschool, it's why we've then chose to you know to just change our whole life and put family above finance, a family above you know anything else, and that's our moral compass because because of what we've been through, yeah, and I think that shapes you, and that shaping of you can then help to help other people in their shaping process, yeah. Not shape them, but help them in their shaping process, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

It you know, I'm I'm thinking also in that in that shaping. You know, you you it talks about the fruits of the spirit and know them by their fruits, and if you look at fruit in general, it grows over a season, doesn't it? It grows slowly in that regard, and you know, our just like us, our character changes and grows slowly and and and changes in in that heart, in a wilderness, as we've framed it in this uh conversation, and you know, faith grows in that time as well. At the same time, it grows slowly, it's not it's sort of in some something necessary that somebody gives you instantly, and trust grows slowly, and all of these things, these important things, they all grow slowly. And then if you look at a wilderness and a time that somebody's gone through a hardship, that's a period of time, and if we allow it, then all of those things are faith, our trust, all of these things will grow during that time slowly and intentionally and purposefully in the right for the right reasons, and you know, I think that this is why God to the Bible talks so much about wilderness and the hardships. Um, because all of these people didn't know they were gonna go through them. No, um, but as we said before, if we recognize that and we allow it, we will definitely come out the better for it at the end, like the examples you were just given as well.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Yeah, so I think just like us, we have to daily, don't we? We have to think about all of this and where we are and where we're gonna go, and and having the knowledge of this, which I think we're so blessed, yeah, you know, that we've now got the knowledge because go back to previous times when we've been in something, we've just been like, Why are we in this? and you It's almost like you're going through constantly like questioning and into a degree, like I know I was complaining, you know. So, whereas now it I don't feel like that. I see it as I don't like necessarily being in it, but I know that I'm being refined by it. Um, and so I guess it's we have to keep reminding ourselves and and reminding yourself that your value doesn't come from what you do, your value comes from just allowing God to refine you into what you're meant to be. And I think that that's a really important one to you know your season isn't wasted, no, your season of having to slow down, having to accept that you know you can't be the productive person you used to be, which is for people like us. I know for you, you know, who's always been the one that's like, Well, I'm the strong one, I can just get on with it, I can I can do do do. You couldn't, you stopped literally in your tracks, and so I think that's really important to embrace that that hasn't been wasted that time because it's almost like you are like, I'm not gonna slow down, I'm gonna keep going, and God's gone. No, you are gonna slow down, yeah, because I need you to slow down, I need you to listen, I need you to be in a different, different space, a different time, a different, a different moment, so you can hear me better, or so that you can, I don't know, I I don't I don't know, but so that you can, you know, you can come out of this differently, yeah. You know, like I like I say, I I'm so different go back 20 years, and so it's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

So you can step into what God's purpose was, you know, as you said, like our circumstance uh can can change, you know. And we spoke about those our our plans that we had for our future can can change, but the one thing that doesn't change is God's faithfulness towards us, and and and he has a plan for us, and he's not going to leave us. No, um, and there's there's a reason for the quietness, yeah, and there's a reason for the wilderness. Um, and as long as we know that God's faithfulness is there, his intentions, his purpose for us are always there. Um that that that needs to be steadfast in us, that needs to not change. Um, it's still difficult to navigate around that, but if we keep that in the focus and know that uh God's purpose and intention, intention and faithfulness for for us is not way around, it is completely steadfast. If we can keep ourselves focused on that, it it'll help us to navigate towards that. Again, it's not easy, it hasn't been easy for us, and I have no doubt that people listening are are in or have been through their wilderness and it's been extremely painful and difficult. I have no doubt at all. But we need to keep that steadfast focus.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Yeah, it is really true, and and I think another tip that's helped us is just staying close to God, staying close to God, staying close to the scriptures, like having those scriptures that you can really connect with and really you know really pull on, even when you don't feel much faithfulness, even when you're really feeling like I'm struggling with this, I'm really struggling to connect with you, and I don't understand all this. You can still you can still find a connection, you can still have something in there that will like I I know, I know there's been days where I'm like, Yeah, I'm I'm not, I'm I'm sorry, I'm just not on this today, I'm not feeling it, you know, I'm not seeing what you're doing, and then bang, something comes in. Whether you open your phone and you see a piece of scripture, or someone sends you a message, or you just open your Bible, and then you see something, and you're like, Okay, yeah, I see what you're doing. I'm kind of thinking that I think in that's where I think he's got good humour.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Yeah, I think in that it's it's um it's just take the next step. Yeah, I'd try not to solve everything, and I think that that's something that as humans we we try to do, we try to fix and and solve everything, but sometimes that picture is too big, that situation is too much, and we just need to just take the next step and that's it. Yeah, we we don't have to fix everything, yeah. We don't have to, in fact, we don't even have to sometimes do anything per se, um but as you said, with the next step is that that you know open your phone or write I've gotta get I've gotta do this, or this opportunity arises, I'll I'll walk into that opportunity because we don't ultimately know where everything's gonna lead us to. We just have to trust in the Lord, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

And I think I think for us, one of the things that's been really massively helpful is that we've been on this journey together. There's not many not not everyone gets that blessing. We've been on this together. So having somebody that really understands what you're going through, who gets you and also you can trust. Yeah, you know, yes, the first portal is definitely prayer. The first port I always do that, like it's in that corner. God's in the corner. I do though, I've noticed whenever we're on a podcast, and I'm like talking to him, and I go, He's watching, his isn't. I'm always like, He's in that corner. Sorry. Um, but yeah, it's we know that we can go to him, we know that we can seek him in prayer, and that's our first port of call. But we are human and we like connection and talking and you know, and having that, and so I think the blessing for us is obviously we've got each other, so finding someone that you can trust, yeah, that you can open up with, that you can, you know, whether it is a friend or whether it's your past or whoever, but just having that that moment, because you've said it before, haven't you? Just being able to speak it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

It can it can be a huge weight lift. I I I really do believe that the our brain is so clouded with thoughts, and and that we can have a million conversations at the same time with ourselves, but when we verbalise things and say things out loud, it leaves us and we also hear it coming back again. And sometimes in that process, we can answer our own questions or solve our own problems. Yeah, um, so I think it's very important to speak things out, and and obviously you can carry on now with what you're saying about connecting with somebody that you trust.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yeah, just connecting with somebody so that you can you can offload, not for them to answer your problems. And this is one thing we've had to learn, haven't we? And I think doing the pastoral course was was really brilliant for that. Um, is that you don't always have to answer somebody because they're not they're not coming to you because they want you to to oh solve that problem for me, even though it seems like that, which is count, you know, it's a bit, but they're not what they're doing is they they want to offload, and that's what we've done, isn't it? There's been times where I've come to you and I've gone, I don't need you to answer me, I don't need you to try and tell me, I need you to listen to me because I just need to get this off, and then can we pray together? And then actually just praying, something can come, or a few days later, something could come to you or to me, yeah, but it gives you that resolve of what you need in that moment, and I think that's the beautiful part of human connection. We were never meant to be alone, no, we are meant to be connected, um, you know, we're meant to be in community, that's the whole point, and we are beyond blessed with the community that we have with our church family, um, and we're all brothers and sisters in Christ. It's just amazing that you can lean on somebody, and being in community means that if you put your hand up and you go, I need help, like I need something, it doesn't matter who you are in that community. If you put your hand up, or if some if it in that community, if we see that there's a member needing, you know, needing help or what have you. I say member, that sounds very formal, doesn't it? I just said that and suddenly thought that wasn't another human, another person, our friend. Um, if we if we see that, we're there, you step into it, you step into it in whatever and you as we always say, don't it, like to to to serve somebody, to help somebody, it should be an inconvenience. It it should inconvenience you in some way if you're gonna be of service, if you're gonna help, because otherwise, what's the is what's the point? So it so that being in connection, that having that family that you can pull on is is vital, I think it's really important, and you can find that if you haven't got that within friends, you can like like with us, you know, for years it was just the two of us, wasn't it? I know we had the boys, but it was just the two of us. Um, we had friends, lost friends, you know. Obviously, we travelled a lot, so a lot of our friends are in other countries, so we still have those friends, but it's not like a connection around you daily. Um, and we now like we we prayed so hard. Oh, but we prayed so hard, didn't we? To have a a group of people around us. So if you haven't got it now, like trust us, this is about that patience game. We prayed for years to have people around us that were like us that would drop anything and help somebody, you know, and we've got that, and I think we're so so blessed to have that, and so you can't you can it can come to anyone. So having that person or having those people that you can bounce off is just incredible. Um, and then look what God's doing in you. So if you're in that moment of like you know, like when you're in your health moment, often the conversation was okay, we're in this situation, you can't do X, Y, and Z because of physically. But what do you think God's trying to work on? What do you think He's trying to do? Um, and let's pray into that, yeah, and let's try and sit with that. Um, and let's let's just realize and and understand that you know we just have to trust in the small things, like you say, Well, today, I don't know, today I I may not be able to eat, you know, I can't lift because there was times where I was having to help even feed you, so I can't lift my hands today and I can't do that, but I can still do this, yeah. You know, so there's always something we can still do, or I still have my family around me. I'm blessed because I'm not on my own. Because could you imagine if you were going through that? You imagine right now if you went through what you've just been through the last year and you didn't have anyone around you to help, like, and there's people out there that that don't have so so I'm saying that from a like when we go to the community uh supermarket um on a Tuesday and we help um you know volunteer. You know, there's people that come in that don't have friends around them, they do now from the supermarket, they've got a connection, but when they first come, they didn't, yeah, and and that's you know, that's heartbreaking. You're like, no, we need to change that, we need to help that, and so that's why you know, just reaching out. If you're in that situation, reach out to a church, you might have to go through a few, but reach out to a church and just find just find some connection because it's really important as humans we have that connection, so yeah, there's a lot of good helpful pointers in the world. No, I was gonna say that though, that's good that we've used to help us, which I think is really important.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

So I think that that's um that's good. It's good to leave people with with um action points, things that can that can serve them and help them. So I think that that kind of brings us naturally to the end of this episode.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Yeah, um, I think it's just a case of trusting deeper. I think it's just a case of and and that's why. Sorry, I know you said finish in, and we are finishing. I'm gonna finish on the Proverbs 3.5. I'm gonna finish on that one. I think it ties in.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

We haven't pulled this in for a while.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Okay, no, you go on, go on on Laney.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Trust the Lord with all your heart and lean, not on your own understanding.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Because He will make the paths straight. And he will make the path straight. Because I think so much of our life where we've tried to just go, no, we've got this, we can do this. The path has looked a little bit wiggly-woggly.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Well, the thing is, you're not a line space for God to reveal his plans for you because you're so now it's okay, we've got this, we've got this, and that's the leaning on your understanding, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Yeah, and I think the stories that we've shared today of you know, Moses and David and Joseph and Jesus, they are they are there to help us because God is just as faithful today as he was to them then, and we have to remember that the the same God that you know is the accounts of all these Bibles is with us today, yeah, and he's faithful.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

100%, and that definitely is a good place to end. So, guys, thank you so much for joining us in this episode. We really do appreciate your time, as always. Please remember if you haven't already hit that subscribe button, it just helps with the algorithms so that we can reach for more people, as do your comments. But more importantly, we'd love to read your comments and obviously get back to them, whether they're comments or personal messages. Uh, thank you so much for those. If you want to support the show, you can also do that. The link is below under the Bas of Coffee section. But until the next episode, stay rooted in Christ, stay strong, and we shall see you.